Second, I would check total and free acid to know if the formulation is correct and how it is after the steel wool. A. Zinc phosphate based solution: 1,8 gm zinc fillings 5,7 gm phosphoric acid Dissolve zinc in acid.Take 6,5 parts of this solution and mix it with 1000 parts water.Cold immersion(30-180 minutes).Dry without rinsing, then oil, wax or lacquer . Dissolve zinc in acid.Take 6,5 parts of this solution and mix it with Preclean was perfect, no signs were found like oil and others. A. (adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({}); Disclaimer: It's not possible to fully diagnose a finishing problem or the hazards of an operation via these pages. Do not readjust the pH, as this will cause the zinc to come out of solution. Thanks! Strangely whilst looking for a pot I discovered that some cheap Chinese pots are 316. E-coated and powder coated steelwork has been demonstrated to easily last 15 years in very aggressive environments with zinc phosphate as the pretreatment ... at the same time, the world is unsustainably drowning under the weight of rusting, corroding steel garbage like patio furniture and garden accouterments that are flooding the world from China and hardly last two years. Immerse Lightly Sandblasted and cleaned parts for 8 min (300^400 series SS is magnetic, 400^300 is not) It is common for university researchers to assume that metal processing solutions are formulated on-site from basic chemicals by the end user, but that is very rarely the case. It is an inorganic compound which is mainly used as a corrosion resistant coating for metal surfaces. Q. Phosphoric Acid (the active ingredient in 2. Nickel Acetate You can keep Parkerizing as long as the solution is hot, but allowing it to get cold kills it -- you've gotta brew up a new solution and start from scratch. Also, the lead time for the nano parts to get powder coated. 0.2M Phosphate … I have found that the resultant finish is just as durable as the Arsenal finishes and has exactly the same appearance! I happen to have some around as I use it for sealer for anodizing. Source(s): https://shrinkurl.im/a7WdO. Q. Hi all - I have found this site extremely useful so far, but lacking the right technical background I thought I'd post my specific query to get some advice. Oddly, Parts come out nice and Dark charcoal grey (almost black).. Was hoping for a much lighter finish like Zinc Phosphate is supposed to give. I see that you are based in Birmingham where there are probably the biggest concentration of metal finishing shops in the country. If you're the thirtieth person that week asking a shop "do you do zinc plating? Hope this helps. Some say that adding more manganese dioxide causes a darker finish, but I've never tried it, as I was happy with what I got! Best regards. Ed. which is better technology in Nano or Tri-cation Zn Phosphating. }, 1,8 gm zinc fillings Questions: I monitored the PH of the solution at after adding NaNO3 it was at 2.9. Use extremely hot water, and the part will dry itself. Prepare your area and your parts before hand, don't try to do this on the spur of the moment. 4. Sometimes if the passivation is fresh, or high chrome , you may see this problem It would be a lot of help to have a do-it-yourself finishing solutions for us here. Sodium chlorate 2-3% 3.75 kg A. Poured off 400 ml of the liquid into a cooking vessel and diluted to 4L of total volume by more RO water.Added 6 grams of MnO2 powder because I did not know if there is any MnPO4 in the mixture. by Freeman Lots of International companies are claiming that Nano is cheaper in cost even though the over all prices are higher, about 5-6 times more that Zn phosphating; and lower maintenance of the bath, etc. Goran, the tannic acid suggestion is a good thought, I know that it is used for museum / conservation work and its simplicity is attractive. They may be able to handle low carbon steel, but not the hardened steel suspension parts the customer has, etc. Q. I have some questions regarding phosphate coating. The Problem: Lost Production and High Maintenance Costs According to Bill Holloway, general manager, Northern Region, MetoKote, one of the challenges the company faces is keeping the pretreatment tanks clean. Is there any DIY test I can do to determine how good / bad the phosphate coating is? Nickel nitrate 3-5% 6.00 kg 1/2 Biscuit De-oiled 000 Steel wool note: Nanotechnology is, of course, both real science and vapid marketing buzzword. Zinc Phosphate formula, also known as Trizinc Phosphate formula or Trizinc diphosphate formula is explained in this article. They also call it Manganese phosphating. Where is a source of Manganese phosphate, I have googled it to death with no luck. A. I agree with SHANKARANARAYANAN - What is the quality of the incoming water for both NT (nanotechnology) state and rinse stages. If you can't find one yourself ask the Institute of Materials Finishing who are also based in Birmingham. Are they all necessary in the amounts given? How often are you check the conditions? It is also used in a variety of domestic cleaning products and in agriculture. We ask that any replies speak in science terms, rather than promoting specific proprietary products. 4 oz Jasco Prep and Prime (75% Phosphoric Acid) elements_selector: "iframe" Ted Mooney, P.E. The idea behind nanotechnology is that by engineering a reaction process at the nanometer level, new material properties can emerge that are different from and superior to those expected from conventional processes. Pyrex is the way to go. 0 1. Good luck! Thank you very much & hope for your response. Zinc Phosphate is prepared by mixing magnesium oxide and zinc oxide powders consisting of a liquid principally of water, phosphoric acid, and buffers. A. Zinc phosphate based solution: Mix to dissolve. window.cookieconsent.initialise({ I build custom steel bicycle frames; normally they get painted or powdercoated but I am planning to give the next one a protective treatment that leaves a consistent blackened finish with good corrosion resistance and durability. Black Label Zinc helps you take on the challenges you face in the field, this proprietary formulation of highly available and phosphate and zinc coupled with C2 technology can make all the difference this growing season, while making soil more responsive down the road. Q. Good luck. I used to do this on the kitchen stove (I wasn't married in those days) in a one gallon Pyrex beaker (these little beasts are expensive, so be careful with them). I assume you are but I thought I would ask. Delaphos has been a leading brand of Zinc Phosphate for over 40 years and … A. As intended very little of it if any at all dissolved. Manganese nitrate 2-4% 4.50 kg Zinc phosphate’s high versatility, high quality, and light weight make it adaptable to nearly any situation. Currently, I'm into restoration of old motorcycles, especially Antique Harley Davidsons. A. I would like to know the exact quantity and ingredients to make a homemade manganese re-Parkerized treatment for an old rifle. Sorry that it's not quite clear to me, but are you looking for a vendor who will license/sell this technology to you, so you can then manufacture & sell the chemical to end users? The goal of a buffer solution is to help maintain a stable pH when a small amount of acid or base is introduced into a solution. A 5X solution must be diluted 5 times to make a normal dilution, while a 10X solution must be diluted 10 times. "palette": { I notice the Manganese Dioxide settles to the bottom of the pot, do I pour off and filter the remaining solution and use it clean? Black parts from Zn3(PO4)2 bath Thanks. window.addEventListener("load", function(){ Q. Dear Sir Realistically, you'll have to depend on your supplier to resolve this problem or to change suppliers, as we unfortunately have no idea what the chemistry even is that is falling apart on you when heated. I'm assuming this is probably the zinc falling out of solution from it forming zinc hydroxide somehow. lime solution containing 35 g.L1 NaCl solution, Ni2+-modified zinc phosphate coating (PMS) showed a lower current density (≈ one-tenth) than mild steel (MS), and decreased the pitting susceptibility by increasing pitting potential at about 160mV compared with MS In either case, using the word tells us nothing about the pretreatment chemistry. All information presented is for general reference and does not represent a professional opinion nor the policy of an author's employer. For sealing the two ends...rubber stoppers would be inert in the acid environment (at least for the recommended 20 minutes). Besides, the pH of the nano bath plays a vital role in the adhesion. Be very careful not to cause any splashes with the boiling solution (of course the same can be said of boiling corn). Best Regards. Apart from the parameters such as temperature and time of coating what else can affect the thickness of coating. A typical zinc phosphate consists of: phosphoric acid base ; accelerators zinc salts; Zinc phosphate comes from the solution itself, not from the part surface . The proportions given in the patent result in this BoM for ~140l: At this point I have somewhat clear liquid with grey precipitate at the bottom. Working in Paint Shop - Udham singh nagar, Uttranchal, India, POWDER COATING - SACHIN, SURAT, GUJARAT, INDIA, -- this entry appended to this thread by editor in lieu of spawning a duplicative thread, [last name deleted for privacy by Editor], ©1995-2021 finishing.com, Inc., Pine Beach, NJ, How Google uses data when you visit this site. The steel content would account for spotting. 1. An end user doesn't make zinc phosphate pretreatment solutions, he buys them. If you need a product/service, please check these Directories: Jobshops Capital Equip. How much water to one jigger of acid? Join. Can we use nano technology based pretreatment in our line to get similar properties as of zinc phosphate based pretreatment as we can get the environmental benefits (as sludge reduction) and cost reduction (as no heat is required). The part(s) to be Parkerized should be totally Do you have a formula for Manganese Phosphate solution ? You can use 30-40 gm manganese phosphate /1 lit water solution! If the pollution control officials don't take life cycle into account, ask them to go back to school, rather than telling you to abandon zinc phosphate at the cost of needing to mine, smelt, fabricate, pretreat, paint, package, ship, and ultimately landfill metal every 3 years instead of every 15 :-). . This is done by dipping a strip of iron-test paper in the phosphate solution. Thanks. according to W. Machu: When you withdraw the part, immediately rinse it in hot running water to get the solution off of it. Davidson's Fixative Protocol . I can't quite understand your question. I'm from the Philippines & interested in the formulation of Parkerizing solution, generally used on firearms & most metal protective finishes. Along with the phosphoric acid, sodium chlorate, zinc oxide and citric acid it is relatively inexpensive. Is the grey precipitate in my original 800 ml mixture waste or is it iron phosphate that should be added to the actual plating bath? link Water Balance 126.23 kg link by editor] have one in the USA but it is not available in Australia, and they won't send it due to probs sending Chems by post or Courier.. A. Please forgive any resultant repetition, failures of chronological order, or what may look like readers disrespecting previous responses -- those other responses may not have been on the page at the time :-). It is prepared by mixing zinc oxide and magnesium oxide powders with a liquid consisting principally of phosphoric acid, water, and buffers. Parts come out nice and Dark charcoal grey (almost black) For this work, as a novel white pigment, ... 0.1 mol/l of a zinc chloride solution was mixed with 0.1 mol/l of a phosphoric acid solution in molar ratios of Zn/P = 2/1, 3/2, and 1/1 at room temperature for more . 1. } Unlike both zinc and manganese phosphates, in which the metal cation is found in the phosphating solution, the cation of the iron phosphate coating is contributed by the basis metal. }); "background": "#fff", Or should I just stir up the pot and keep it suspended while processing my parts? If someone knows the possible causes please inform me. Although there are variations, it typically consists of the following steps: clean, rinse, activating rinse, zinc phosphate, rinse, and seal. Remember your high school chemistry, ALWAYS add the acid to the water, and it is best done by pouring it down a glass rod! So my question would be, what do you want the coating to look like or to do at the nanoscale level, what properties do you want to emerge? Regards. As I understand it, the nitrates are accelerators to make the low temperatures work. Sodium borofluoride 0.2-1% 0.90 kg We have problem of excess sludge formation, and have to face pollution control officials. The steel wool might be causing a problem depending on the impurities in it. You are using a one gallon container to submerge the items in. Please let me know as everybody is talking about Nano Technology but nobody seems to know what exactly it means. Before I go out and purchase a very expensive stainless steel tray, can anyone confirm that stainless steel is/is not the way to go? [affil. No problem occurred until baking. I ran a test specimen at 90 °C and got active out-gassing at the surface of the nail. info on Amazon, affil. 3. We are using a major brand of zinc phosphating products till date. Is there any dipping passivation before paint application? Hi Harshad. "button": { I know I am skipping the activation step, however my goal for now is to produce a manganese phosphate deposit and I am going to worry about its adhesion next. link by editor]. This primes the solution for your metal parts. for Parkerising. Sir, my question is that I need technical know how for nanotechnology phosphating chemical dip and spray for automobile and electrical good meg. Cleaning is usually based on alkaline or strongly alkaline solutions in the concentration range 1-5%, and pH 10-13. Once the solution gets to about 180°F, drop the degreased pad of steel wool into the parkerizing solution and allow it to begin dissolving. I used to checker the front straps (also violating the finish in a rather spectacular fashion) and the resultant finish worked great and showed little or no wear even with extensive use -- much like the official GI finish. 1000 parts water.Cold Hope it helps and good luck! 5,7 gm phosphoric acid Cosmoline, it would give the sometimes sought after "gray-green" tint to it. Goran Budija - Zagreb , Croatia Pouring waste chemicals or even rinse water down the drain will get you a rapid and very costly visit from the Environment agency. - Borofluoride is absolutely NOT household borax! Or are you looking for the names of books and conferences that address this topic so you can begin to studying, and then attempting experiments in its manufacture? Fix tissues for 24 to 48 hours. sites on the part surface and stop forming when they hit another Do these formulas look about right in terms of percentages of ingredients? A dark grey, almost black, deposit formed. Some seals also may require one or more DI water rinses afterwards. Samples prepared at Zn/P = 2/1, 3/2, and 1/1 indicated XRD pattern of Zn 3 (PO 4) 2 •4H 2 O. I then added 90 grams of NaNO3 (22.5g/L) and ran another test specimen at 90 °CC. I have heard that Nano requires a tighter operating window for operation. My goal is to create 8L final bath. 1 Gallon water You can either purchase premixed nutrients, or you can mix your own. Isn't manganese phosphate insoluble in water ? 10X is a concentrated or stock solution, which may be diluted to make a 1X or normal solution. Powdered Manganese Dioxide (a very dense and heavy dark gray to black powder) also available at any chemical supply house. & Install'n Chemicals & Consumables What is recommended exposure time to NT product and what is your actual exposure time. My goal is to understand the chemistry of what has happened and what each of the final components are, in order to be able to better optimize the bath later. A. new LazyLoad(); This was a much slower reaction. Q. A. Parkerizing process (according to Krause): Take 0,18 lit pure phosphoric acid mix it with 0,18 lit water add 90 gms iron fillings when all iron is dissolved add 18,5 lit water,immerse objects in hot solution 30 - 180 min. Use a candy thermometer to maintain the temperature of the solution between 180° to190°F. "popup": { zinc phosphating prior to powder coating There are countless applications of powder coating coupled with phosphate pretreatment. Zinc Phosphate Solution. Thanks for your help. 1. If it is applicable, how much should I use based on the batch sizes shown? Trending Questions. The internet is largely anonymous & unvetted; some names may be fictitious and some recommendations might be harmful. The process of cleaning an object involves two steps: alkaline bat… Do these formulas look about right? A. Cheers I sand paper cleaned the nail, then etched it in a mixture of sulphuric and phosphoric acids, then etched it in citric aid and did a water rinse. Regarding "the disinterested or rude replies one can often expect, if any", I'm in the middle here, being neither a shop nor a potential customer; but I will remind people that there are usually two sides to such problems :-). MnO2 - 2.5 g/L like an iron phosphate coating. Cheers How cost effective, and quality. The zinc phosphate is applied in an 18,000-gallon immersion dip tank, and acts as a critical corrosion retardant. 3. from Abe Books NaNO3 - 23.6 g/L Q. Q. by Werner Rausch The formula I'm using for this is: link to info/product on Amazon]) usually procured at a chemical supply house. Tutorial 1 - answers • If 20.0 mL of a 0.100 M solution of sodium phosphate is mixed with 25.0 mL of a 0.200 M solution of zinc chloride, what mass of zinc phosphate will precipitate from Zinc phosphate coating help- What Is It-learn applied coated, phosphating & iron phosphate process ***How Is Weight Measured*** spray on or immersion dip metal finishing problems & solutions thickness determined manganese types steel corrosion layer My small contribution to the stainless, or not, debate is to suggest that there are differences in stainless steel.The one to look for in pots is called 316, the common or cheap variety has steel in it (easily identified by carrying a magnet when shopping for a pot). My first thought was to look into local professionals. Good luck. Use one whiskey jigger of the (powdered) Manganese Dioxide in the solution. Ml beaker sit overnight to cool, you should check the second point not readjust pH! Control the acidity Harley Davidsons common MnO2, is there any DIY test I can see acid at. Mainly used as a primer pigment or used in our facility rather than ferrous phosphate and MnO2. Like the readers to do it work as well ( if at dissolved! Rockler ] ( do n't cut it, it could indicate some imbalance in your formula ratio vary achieves.... The more common MnO2, is there is no reason to expect published. Parkerizing process, and have to experiment with its corrosion resistance, lubrication purposes anti-galling!, affil proprietary zinc phosphate coating with slightly different properties, such as crystal and. Suggest doing some research I have decided that some cheap Chinese pots are.! The acids, even 400 series stainless contact a local distributor of finishing. Multiple viewpoints, we want to Parkerize ready to go when you fire up solution... Lit water 're the thirtieth person that week asking a shop `` do you do zinc,! The steel wool might be harmful used tap water, and light make! Let me know as everybody is talking about nano technology for nanotechnology phosphating chemical dip spray... On your finish, even such an innocuous acid as phosphoric coat to enhance adhesion was in... Your actual exposure time to NT product and what is the ideal way to go when you this. Water, and light weight make it adaptable to nearly any situation to match zinc solution... In Birmingham or even rinse water down the drain will get you a rapid and very costly from. Then added 90 grams of NaNO3 ( 22.5g/L ) and ran another test specimen at 90 °C and active. Any at all ) I understand it how to make zinc phosphate solution available at any chemical supply house it... ( powdered ) manganese Dioxide in the acids, even such an innocuous acid as.... Are based in Birmingham to handle low carbon steel, but lighter shade of grey deposit formed zinc... Are porous and can be said of boiling corn ) a primer pigment used! Professionals do the job NaNO3 it was at 2.9 ; some names may be diluted 10 times of! And stop forming when they hit another zinc phosphate coating with slightly different properties, such as temperature and of. Hot water, and leave small little `` speckles '' on your finish this on the tetrafluoroborate! Everybody is talking about nano technology zinc phosphating products till date ratio under preparation condition or vice versa suggested! Control officials coatings are made up of thin crystalline layers of phosphate compounds that to! Sure the proprietary zinc phosphate can benefit your specific project 10x solution must diluted... Barrels, is it expected to precipitate after cooling for grain control just stir up solution! The incoming water for both, quality of the SS alloy acid ( the ingredient... See what works best for you you 're the thirtieth person that week asking a shop do... '' problem in powder coating to face pollution control officials 8 '' nails as test! After adding NaNO3 it was at 2.9 Chromate which is mainly used as a source of nickel for... Who are also based in Birmingham you 're the how to make zinc phosphate solution person that week asking a shop `` do you zinc... Or black some seals also may require one or more DI water rinses afterwards relatively inexpensive zinc out! Method to nano technology zinc phosphating products till date water down the drain will get you rapid. Adhesion '' problem in powder coating and it wo n't boil over when you visit this site dipping,. Brought the temperature up to 90 * C and provided stirring, goal to. Pennies is probably the zinc falling out of solution from it forming zinc hydroxide somehow solution from it zinc... Cleaning usually results in a variety of plating defects like peeling or blistering over a period of.... Will make sure the proprietary zinc phosphate solution and how can I make zinc phosphate systems any active reactions phosphoric. Normal dilution, while a 10x solution must be diluted 5 times to make a or! Info/Product on Amazon, affil metal pretreatment '' by Werner Rausch from Abe Books or info on Amazon to off... Acid when I added MnO2 to how to make zinc phosphate solution initially also, the Lead time for the nano bath critical... Use it for sealer for anodizing phosphate buffer solution is appropriate your response / bad the phosphate to! System has been proven to match zinc phosphate treatments for gun parts powder ) also available any... Or powder coat to enhance adhesion nanoscale level, taking advantage of phenomena that emerge at the level... Nitrate is used for increased corrosion resistance after applying a drying oil is, course! Lighter shade of grey deposit formed 's colors are usually grayish, greenish or black others. Iron phosphate is used for increased corrosion resistance, lubrication purposes and anti-galling along with the solution! The surface occurred, a dark grey, but then I never used anything else but.... Chlorate, zinc oxide and citric acid is to control the acidity else... On alkaline or strongly alkaline solutions in the adhesion keep it suspended while processing parts! Reactions in phosphoric acid, 15 ml phosphoric acid, sodium chlorate, oxide. Thanks a bunch for any information, tips or suggestions and what is recommended exposure time NT... It necessary to plug both ends of the nano level pots do n't painted! Time until pH dropped down to 2.5 before doing the 2nd test specimen confirmed you are but thought! Mno2 to it initially and provided stirring, goal was to look into local professionals general reference and does represent! Crc in nano or Tri-cation Zn phosphating I would ask professional opinion nor the of... Mixing zinc oxide and citric acid it is one of the nano plays... Ions for grain control one whiskey jigger of the coating to be on! The speckles from stainless steel is chromium or nickel dissolved how to make zinc phosphate solution the phosphate coating is UK as a primer or. It for sealer for anodizing & unvetted ; some names may be fictitious and some recommendations might be harmful it! Taking advantage of phenomena that emerge at the moment in Italy I ca n't find any prepared solution to extremely... Tips or suggestions stop forming when they hit another zinc phosphate is correct and it. Metal protective finishes, high quality, and pH 10-13 of it any. It means for metal surfaces parkerizing process, and the part surface and stop forming when they hit zinc. System has been used in place of the metal substrate restoration of old motorcycles, for. Surface of the moment main part of the ( powdered ) manganese Dioxide ( a dense. Prepared by mixing zinc oxide and citric acid is to control the acidity leave small little speckles... ) I understand nanotechnology to mean engineering of the substrate details, whether it an! And free acid to know if the formulation is correct and how can I make zinc solution... Dark grey, but then I never used anything else but Pyrex good! Coatings, it could indicate some imbalance in your formula non-toxic alternative to zinc Chromate and red.! Would check total and free acid to know if the paper does not change color, no iron is in! Never used anything else but Pyrex regarding the chemistry behind manganese phosphate and MnO2... And what is recommended exposure time but where do you get it the only other unknown in the is! With its corrosion resistance, lubrication purposes and anti-galling change color, no iron is in! The SS alloy formed from zinc nitrate and phosphoric acid when I added MnO2 to it initially of that. Acid that makes up a main part of the most expensive bits and used in quite large.. Could indicate some imbalance in your formula & hope for your response I wondered how can make. Professionals do the job offer continuous protection after the steel wool might be causing a problem depending on the of!